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  • Fresh Water Tank....

    Would you rather have a Fresh Water Direct-Feed, Fresh Water Tank or both?




  • #2
    the type service vehicle being used truely determines whether or not one uses a fresh tank or not.
    i cannot see carrying 100+gals of water, along with the TM, and all associated chems and gear in a mini-van.
    wont fit too well plus the weight will severely shorten the mini's life!

    if an operator insists on a fresh tank, a 35-50 gal one will suffice for the extremely rare occassion, there is no water source at the job site!


    • #3
      I would rather have a fresh water talk. Doing a direct feed is too much like using a portable. For previous TM owners it would be a step backward doing a direct feed and for portable owners it would not be step forward. Direct feed requires additional setup time hooking into the customer's hot tap water and running a solution hose out.

      Using a fresh water tank it decreases setup time for every job. Tank size needs to be big enough to finish the average 6 room job using a Rotovac 360. Small enough that it will fit in and not over weigh a mini-van. 6 room jobs with a RV is probably the most water a guy will use on an average sized big job. If the two are mutually exclusive then having a tank small enough to work with a minivan is of greater importance to me.

      Just like the generator, integrated is better then stand alone for the space saving and neatness factor. Integrated fresh water tanks is one of the reasons why the Amtex stack is so popular.


      • #4

        Hey Will,

        Just so you know, normally when doing a would do so from the out-side spigget/water tap.

        It is only on our "Free-Heat" System that one would possibly need to hook-up to an internal hot water tap/source.

        This is what a lot of TM Fellas are used to doing, and many of course prefer the Fresh Tank coupled with a Direct Feed option...BEST OF BOTH WORLDS!

        One of the issues when using a Fresh Tank, is that you need a Transfer Pump to "Force Feed" the Solution Pump...this helps keep the Solution Pump from getting possible air-bubbles which cause Cavitation, also lengthens the life of the Pump/Motor because it is not working as hard to "suck the water" in from the Fresh Tank/Hoses.

        Anyway, I like the idea of offering the "Best-of-Both Worlds"...

        The measurements that we have thus far come up with to include a Fresh Tank only allow for about 45-gallon capacity. Might not be enough for the use of an which case, One would need to Direct Feed....which again is what most TM guys are used to doing...that don't use, have or want a Fresh Tank. (remember, you are simply connecting to the outside spigget.)

        Anyway, I Hope this helps and Thank-YOU for the reply!



        • #5
          Fresh Tank....

          Originally posted by mickybullets
          the type service vehicle being used truely determines whether or not one uses a fresh tank or not.
          i cannot see carrying 100+gals of water, along with the TM, and all associated chems and gear in a mini-van.
          wont fit too well plus the weight will severely shorten the mini's life!

          if an operator insists on a fresh tank, a 35-50 gal one will suffice for the extremely rare occassion, there is no water source at the job site!
          I agree with ALL that you wrote Micky!

          There has to be a balance in size, weight and capacity for sure!

          I'm sure that most Mini-Vans can handle around a 45-gallon capacity myself.

          One certainly does not have to fill it to Full Capacity if their particular Mini-Van cannot handle a full 45-gallons too.

          What minimum gpm would you use to transfer water from a fresh tank to a Solution Pump?

          Thanks-YOU for posting Micky!



          • #6
            Fresh Water Tank or Not?

            We need both! This way if someone is just against transporting water then
            they have an empty tank. At least to the first job. The way that I felt worked
            best with any truckmount that I have owned was White Magic's slide in that
            had an 85 gallon waste tank and a fairly big solution tank. In the summer it wasn't
            so imortant to be able to have water on board. But in the winter when the temps
            got below freezing I really appreciated my fresh water tank. In my opinion it should
            be around 50 gallons.


            • #7
              The future of carpet cleaning

              Here is what I do not get:
              It takes and average of 30 gallons to clean each stop and the average cleaners makes 3 stops a day.
              This means that your 55 gallon drum or 45 gallon fresh tank will only do one job.
              This means that in order for you to be prepped for the second and third job you have to hook to the customer water any way. If you have to hook to the customers water any way, just hook to the customers water in the first place. Make sense? The 20 years I sent on a service truck I cleaned 20,000,000 sq ft of carpet and only about 1 or 2 jobs a year did not have easily accessible water. Here is what I have found out. If you have a one ton truck (or larger) I do not mind having water on board. The truck does not care either. The truck is such a beast that it does not seam to make too huge a difference driving around. The one ton vans get about 10 mpg in gasoline and the Isuzu NPR diesel truck (1.5 ton) fully loaded get about 13.5 gpm. I figure the whole idea of hybrid truck-mounts is to be able to clean for free with a fast back up option if electricity is hard to access in the event gas spikes or if you just want to save about $4000+ a year on fuel. If I am going to save on fuel, this means I am in the market for a mini van or light duty truck. I want a vehicle that gets 17+ mpg I need to not carry water. What I always did was ask my customer after a booked the job. "Do you have water turned on?" If not, through a 55 gallon drum in the truck and fill it up. Just make sure you have a water transfer pump too. In this case I would purchase a 115 volt one since I can either plug it into my job site or my generator. All the Hybrid truck mounts have an extra outlet on board for this. This arraignment means I get the best possible mpg in the smallest truck and save the most money from each clean. The average truck mount consumes 1.1 gpm while the engine is on. If fuel was $5 per gallon. I used to run my machines 4 hours a day 7 days a week or 120 hours a month. 120 X 1.1 X $5 = $660 a month or $7920 a year. The average carpet cleaner drives 24,000 miles a year. Purchase a one ton truck and get 10 mpg or use 2400 gallons of fuel X $5 = $12,000 a year for fuel. Purchase a light duty truck and get 17 to 19 mpg loaded in the city or 1411 gallon of fuel consumed X $5 = $7,055. I get serious about saving money I can purchase a V-Tech Truck mount use the customers hot water, boost the the water with the provided automatic 140 degree vacuum heat exchangers and clean for free with the customer electricity and save $4945 driving around and another $7920 by using the customers power and hot water and put $12,865 in my pocket every year. I realize these figures are based on a busy carpet cleaner cleaning 15+ jobs a week per truck but very do-able. So what if I only do 7 jobs a week and I only save $6400 a year, Or what ever... I still make more money per job for my family and my company. For you companies that say "140 degrees, that is a joke" can make up the difference with the missing parts of the cleaning pie. You can get any carpet clean by altering you chemicals, dwell time, or agitation. For home cleaning though use an injection sprayer, give a good pre-soak, agitate with a fast light weight floor machine (recommend the Koblenz Carpet Shampooer)
              Koblenz Carpet Shampooer Power Scrub Floor Buffer Start Up 15 Inch Cleaning Path , Carpet Shampooer, Shampoo - Polishers, Equipment Carpet Cleaning Machines, by Koblenz, This is the 1 best selling home carpet cleaning shampooer floor polisher combo wit...

              rinse off with the Hybrid truck-mount.
              In summary, I feel like some cleaners "miss the point." If you want the largest, the best the hottest and carry water, what ever, what every. Do that. If you want to save money, do that instead. Here is what I here cleaners do, "I want this..., I want that...., design like this..., do that..." But come time to pay for it it will be a completely different story. Features cost money and nothing is free. The more features you add the more it cost to start up and start making a profit. If you take a loan, the more interest you will pay. Here is what is important, heat, vacuum, pressure, and automation (no stop cleaning). Forget the set up. All machines, portables, truckmounts, truck mounts that transport water to the job, ALL take 15 min to set up and 15 min to clean up. That is the fact of being a carpet cleaner. ALL carpet cleaners dream about elimination of this. It is not going to happen. I have owned hundreds of truckmounts of all different types and configurations and V-Tech Hybrid truckmounts is and will be the future in a mini van of Ford Transit or similar "without a fresh water tank!" Carpet cleaners will become forced to learn how to save money and be more competitive against the competition. If you are spending all you money on fuel will will not have the money to invest in future projects or other types of services you need to expand your company into. Future carpet cleaners will work out of smaller service trucks and have a "specialty" prepped small trailer. These trailers will carry all the fresh water, dehumidifiers, air movers, carpet cushion,... for water damage or what ever will not fit in the standard mini service truck. You will learn to pre-qualify your jobs and spend more time on the phone to know what jobs to pull the trailer and what jobs to not. This day will come...
              White Magic Truckmount, Truckmounts by Brand, Equipment Carpet Cleaning Machines, Sapphire Scientifice 270SS, 370SS, 454SS, 570SS, 870SS, 2500SS, Pro-1200 Direct Drive , Rage, Big Gulp 3500- Sell You Used Machine Here for Free.


              • #8
                wow donald, great post plus, i never realized how long winded you can be

                i couldnt agreee with you more but the single most important thing is the fact way too many cleaners, especially the younger crowd/newbies, all get hung up on "set-up times"!

                in my nearly 40yrs of being both a cleaner/employer/supervisor, rushing on a job was the last thing i wanted to do, or wanted my techs to do.
                me personally, i always used set-up times, and walk thru's, to get a much better feel for my customer, and prepare my upsell, of add'l services! that is how i trained my people too!!!

                when i first began cleaning as an owner operator (1973), it cost me a whopping 10 bucks to fill up my dodge van! even then, i was looking for ways to economize, cut costs, and be as profitable as possible.

                most times cleaners run into the "no water available job", is at apartment complexes. this is where an onboard water tank is helpful. better yet, a good portable extractor.

                2 times in my nearly 40yrs, i ran into a "no water at jobsite"!

                i always qualified my customer with......"do you have water available onsite"?

                IMO, gpm on transfer pump should be at least what the gpm of the cleaning pump is. gravity feed, or pump draw from fresh is ok also, but the pump works best when fed under pressure!


                • #9
                  Suction fed is not an option

                  The V-Tech truckmounts cannot be suction fed because there is about 35 ft of hose and tubing to suck through because of the vacuum heat exchangers that are mounted before the pump. Pressure fed is a requirement.
                  The engine heat exchanger is mounted after the water pump.


                  • #10

                    I need to absorb Donald's very informative Post and then I will reply.

                    Jan, Thank-YOU for the in-put!

                    As a reminder, our Foot-Print with a 46.0 Gal. Fresh Tank is:

                    CAT-5 HURRICANE/HTM= 32"w x 38"h x 38"d.

                    LIGHTNING/ETM= 26"w x 38"h x 36"d.

                    The TYPHOON and LIGHTNING 8.4 will be slightly larger, more so in depth than anything else, because of the Direct Drive set-up.

                    All "Self-Contained" Machines with ALL Tanks inside of (1) Foot-Print!

                    To me, there are many who want, do not want and/or need a Fresh Tank. The ones that do not want one, depending on how busy they are, will find a time that they "SURE COULD USE ONE"!

                    Though I do not have the NUMEROUS YEARS OF EXPERIENCE of some of you on this thread...I did spend many hours on a Truck/Van with a 55-Gal. Fresh Tank/Drum. We too cleaned an average of (3) homes a day (traffic lanes mostly.) and would hook-up to one of the homes at least once a day on average...sometimes twice.

                    Anyway, to me...the Pros out-weigh the Cons.

                    I know that I cannot make everyone Happy, but I can at the very my best!




                    • #11
                      V-tech 50-gallon fresh water tank....

                      I will post a better explanation of this later.

                      Thank you all for your suggestions and comments!



                      • #12
                        First just want to say that my carpet cleaning experience is limited to using a portable. Have not used a TM or a fresh water tank so can't speak from my experience there. I can speak from what I want to get away from however.

                        Every job I do has about a 15 min setup time and 15 min break down time. I have to carry in my hoses and equipment and hook up directly to the customer's hot tap water, run power cords to separate circuits, and put the APO hose to the toilet preferably.

                        Gas TM owners just bring in their vac hose, solution hose, and then pre spray the carpet. Bring in their rotovac or wand and start cleaning.

                        Since this thread is on fresh water tanks I won't go into the other details on what makes the Hurricane appealing to a gas TM. A fresh water tank is a needed option especially if you want to attract gas TM owners to consider a hurricane. Portable owners that run their portable from their van/trailer have a fresh water tank. Having a feed is of course needed to refill your tank. Bottom line is that a fresh water tank is cheap compared to the TM but a popular feature that would be looked down upon if it wasn't an option.

                        As a current portable owner that brings my equipment into the customers house I want a unit that I fill up once maybe twice a day from an outside garden hose and not have to hook up to the customer's water for every job. I want to get away from bringing gear into the customers house and the setup time that involves. It is one of the reasons I stopped considering the steam brite goliath as an upgrade because I realized my setup time would remain the same to my current equipment. The goliath is better then what I have but it would not save me time in the setup and break down process. Basically I would be doing the same exact setup steps with a goliath as I do now. Having a Hurricane would lower my setup and breakdown time thus increasing my productivity along with its superior heat and suction.

                        If I were to start over I would have bought a goliath as a starting portable, I am fairly impressed with what I have seen of it.